Card Discussion 9/24 - 9/28: Analyzing the Role/Impact of Spawners in the Arena
Hello Clashers! I am Wusky-Husky, a new member of the discussion team and today we will be discussing the current state of spawners. Please note that some ideas are personal and meant to be provocative and is meant to help stimulate your discussion. Disclaimer: We are not affiliated, endorsed by and do not represent the views of Supercell, or Tencent.
Summary:
In this post, I will begin by showing some statistics of the cards (like HP and DPS) and also, some use/win statistics from RoyaleAPI. The next section will show why nerfs to health are ineffective to a card like the Barbarian Hut. After that, I touch on the main focus, the role of huts - featuring Seth's opinions and my own analysis on the role of spawners. I also suggest why a rework could be needed. Then I showcase and discuss META decks with Huts, and expand on my previous point - the role of huts. Finally we should wrap it up with some of your own ideas!
Introduction:
The spawners we will be dealing with fall into the 'hut' category. These are buildings that spawn units periodically while alive and are able to chip the opponent's crown tower without assistance. Goblin cage is excluded because it only spawns upon death while tombstone does not chip the towers.
Spawners appear to be quite a controversial topic within the Clash Royale community, and has quite an infamous reputation for being annoying. Furnace is often hated on ladder and tricky to rework. Barbarian hut creates a 'brick wall' as some describe. They are always in an 'awkward' spot in terms of balance and gameplay - can be either be very underwhelming or overpowered. Likewise, some would even argue to the extent that spawners should never become a part of the META.
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Card (Gameplay) Statistics:
This section will cover the gameplay statistics of the spawners, and the respective units they spawn. All cards will be listed under tournament standards, which is at level 9.
The first, most expensive hut spawner is Barbarian Hut, costing a whopping 7 elixir, and is obtainable from barbarian bowl. It was released on 4/Jan/16 alongside Goblin Hut. It spawns a handsome duo of Barbarians each time but has a sluggish spawn rate. Upon being destroyed, two additional Barbarians emerge from the rubble.
Barbarian Hut
"Building that periodically spawns Barbarians to fight the enemy. Time to make the Barbarians!"
| Cost | Health | Lifetime | Spawn Rate | Deployment |
| 7 Elixir | 1452 HP | 50 seconds | 12.5 seconds/wave | 1 second |
\Lifetime is how long the building lasts, due to a linear gradual decay in HP, if the building is left undamaged from external factors. What can be derived is the natural decay per second which can be measured in hitpoints, is (Max Health / Lifetime).*
\Deployment is how long a card takes to "load" or become active. Huts spawn troops instantly from the moment of deployment.*
The Barbarian Hut spawns two Barbarians per wave. The stats for one are:
Base Stats: (Barbarians)
| Health | Damage (per one hit) | DPS (Damage per second) | Hit speed |
| 555 HP | 159 DMG (Single Target) | 113 DPS | 1.4 seconds/hit |
Attributes: (Barbarians)
| Range | Target | Speed | Transport |
| Short, Melee | Ground | Medium | Ground |
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Goblin Hut:
The second hut is the Goblin Hut, costing 5 elixir and is unlocked at goblin stadium. Unlike the other huts it spawns single units but also, at a much faster rate. Upon death it releases a trio of three 'spare' Spear Goblins, who had their lives 'spared' during the demolition of the hut.
Goblin Hut
"Building that spawns Spear Goblins. Don't look inside... you don't want to see how they're made."
| Cost | Health | Lifetime | Spawn Rate | Deployment |
| 5 Elixir | 844 HP | 40 seconds | 4.5 seconds/wave | 1 second |
The stats for a single Spear Goblin is:
Base Stats: (Spear Gobs)
| Health | Damage (per one hit) | DPS (Damage per second) | Hit speed |
| 110 HP | 67 DMG (Single Target) | 39 DPS | 1.7 seconds/hit |
Attributes: (Spear Gobs)
| Range | Target | Speed | Transport |
| 5, Ranged | Ground/Air | Very Fast | Ground |
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Furnace:
Finally last but not least (well it is least in it's elixir cost to be fair), the latest spawner hut (ironically not called a 'hut') is Furnace, released on 3/May/16, it spawns two kamikaze fire spirits in pairs. It's the only hut that does not spawn units on death.
Furnace
"The Furnace spawns two Fire Spirits at a time. It also makes great brick-oven pancakes."
| Cost | Health | Lifetime | Spawn Rate | Deployment |
| 4 Elixir | 844 HP | 50 seconds | 10 seconds/wave | 1 second |
Fire Spirits scurry out in pairs. The stats for one Fire Spirit is:
Base Stats: (Fire Spirits)
| Health | Damage (per one hit) | DPS (Damage per second) | Hit speed |
| 91 HP | 178 DMG (Multi Target) | N/A DPS | N/A seconds/hit |
Attributes: (Fire Spirits)
| Range | Target | Speed | Transport |
| 2, Ranged | Ground/Air | Very Fast | Ground |
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Statistics (RoyaleAPI):
From RoyaleAPI stats and personal experience, it becomes clear that the Barbarian Hut is in a very strong position, while its counterparts, the Furnace and Goblin Hut are obviously unloved, not only in comparison to Barb Hut but within the game itself. At one point, a few days ago, Barbarian Hut had the third highest win rate in Grand Challenges, while Goblin Hut and Furnace are comparable in terms of use and win rate with cards like Elite Barbarians.
Let's start off with the Barbarian Hut. I will use statistics from Grand Challenges, which is the default setting in which the RoyaleAPI page is configured in. Grand Challenges and Classic Challenges use level 9 cards, which most players have, and best reflects the card's strength without level bias. The META is also more 'elastic' than mid ladder for example.
Data obtained from https://royaleapi.com/cards/popular?cat=GC&mode=grid (~4am GMT 24/Sep/2020)
Barbarian Hut (GC):
| Days From "Now" | Win Rates | Use Rate |
| 1 | 57% (4th) | 8% (33rd) |
| 3 | 54% (14th) | 7% (39th) |
| 7 | 56% (8th) | 7% (35th) |
Goblin Hut (GC):
| Days From "Now" | Win Rates | Use Rate |
| 1 | 35% (88th) | 1% (94th) |
| 3 | 38% (88th) | 1% (96th) |
| 7 | 39% (85th) | 1% (96th) |
Furnace (GC):
| Days From "Now" | Win Rates | Use Rate |
| 1 | 17% (96th) | 1% (97th) |
| 3 | 18% (96th) | 1% (97th) |
| 7 | 28% (95th) | 1% (95th) |
Correspondence of GC stats with other 'gamemodes':
I have checked other statistics, from Classic Challenge, Top 1000 and All of Ladder. These stats obtained from Grand Challenges generally reflects and is consistent with almost all of the other gamemodes, with Barbarian Hut having a strong use and win rate (always top 20 in win rate) while the two other counterparts, Furnace and Goblin Hut have use rates in the one percents, but higher (compared to GC rates) yet still mediocre win rate (45% approx).
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Changes to Health of Spawners are Ineffective:
Not helpful...
All three of the huts have had consecutive nerfs to their hitpoints. The latest balance updates occurred in May 2020 when the hitpoints of the respective cards, Furnace, Goblin Hut and Barb Hut decreased by 16%, 35% and 20%. This also makes Goblin Hut's hitpoints consistent with Furnace.
It is interesting to note that a rework that involves changing the spawn delay has never been done before.
A more detailed version can be found on the CR Wiki. https://clashroyale.fandom.com/wiki
Surprisingly and strangely, the Barbarian Hut's use rate and win rates actually skyrocketed following the 20% nerf in hitpoints, which is damn counterintuitive. The two factors that contribute to this phenomenon may be that the Barb Hut has synergy with the cards that happen to be META, and secondly, what this article will emphasise on is that hitpoints are not the problem - and a better approach would be to implement an initial spawn delay.
The first thing that can be noticed is that the two barbarians themselves are a major accomplice that adds to the building's tankiness. A Barbarian Hut at tournament standard has 1452 HP, but a Barbarian that emerges from it boasts an HP of 555. That, on paper adds up to almost 2000 hitpoints, which is not considered if you only look at the raw stats. A single barbarian has almost a third of the hitpoints of the hut itself. Don't forget it also spawns not one but two fearsome Barbarians, so from a single unit targeter's point of view, it would have almost 2.5k HP (not always true but you get the idea). Therefore, the effect of tackling the hut's health is greatly diminished if the Barbarians are not taken into account.
A limitation to this view could be that the nerf is effective from a spell usage perspective. The extra barbarians don't directly add to the HP of the hut. A counterclaim to this is that spells are rarely used against a barb hut deck, which consists of spell bait cards like Graveyard, Royal Hogs and Skeleton Dragons that can offer too much value and unleash hell if the spell is 'wasted' on the hut.
Furthermore, the hitpoint nerf is insignificant in comparison because a larger problem could be pertaining to the instant spawning of the troops.
An external factor is that the Barbarian Hut is used in combination with synergetic cards like Skeleton Dragons, so it can be argued that a part of the Barbarian Hut's power is proportional to the strength and dominance of synergetic cards.
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The Role that Huts/Spawners Play:
Here are some of Seth's opinions on huts -
Obtained from https://twitter.com/search?q=From%3ASeth_Supercell%20hut&src=typed_query
Seth_Supercell Tweeted on Apr 7 2020
Goblin Hut & Barb Hut might be a bit too good (Barb Hut sports a shockingly high win rate, due to its low usage) but its encouraging to find a way to make these cards viable without being overpowered. The death spawn creates openings for counter attacks that are satisfying (3/)
Colton_Wall Tweeted On Apr 14 2020
I don't mind using em when they're strong but I've been of the opinion that spawners being strong feels bad to play against since day 1. Literally every spawner has been meta at some point in time and only tombstone feels balanced/good when seeing high usage imo
Seth_Supercell Tweeted On Apr 14 2020
Agree - I am happy the death spawn has created a purpose / role for spawners, but we did not expect Goblin Hut to shoot up this much. The buildings should not serve as a reliable defensive play vs Hog Riders and Giants. something we are already looking at for next month.
Seth_Supercell Tweeted On May 20 2020
And finally, the spawners. Barb Hut was sneaky good before (high winrate on medium userate, like >5%-58%) but Goblin Hut Month is definitely not the ideal meta every month. We want spawners to generate value if you can protect them, not being tough blockers on their own. (8/x)
Main Points I extracted:
- Try to find a way for it to become viable without being overpowered
- Spawners should not be the most reliable option for countering tanks
- Spawners should not be able protect themselves easily
- Spawners should offer value and reward players if protected
Wusky-Husky's analysis and opinion on the roles of spawners:
I see spawners as something you call an 'investment'. That means that they should not instantly generate value in the short term but instead release it slowly and reward the player in the long term.
The huts already reward the players in the long run, for example a furnace spawns 12 fire spirits, for only 4 elixir. To manually deploy 3 fire spirits, it would cost you 2 elixir. Manually deploying 12 fire spirits would need 4 sets of 3 fire spirits which would cost 8 elixir.
I like to use the shower and bath analogy. If you want to wash for 5 minutes, shower, but if you want to wash for over 15 minutes go for the bath, to use water in the most efficient way. A bath shouldn't offer much value if you have only been in there for 5 minutes, while in contrast a shower won't be sustainable in the long run.
What violates this principle is how huts can generate value in the short run as well. This is because the units spawn from the hut as soon as it is built and are ready to engage in combat; instantaneously giving 'value'.
The biggest violator would be the Barbarian Hut, as the two barbarians are very strong, in contrast to a lonely frail spear goblin that stumbles out of the Goblin Hut. This has been carefully balanced out by the longer wait time or spawn rate of the Barbarian Hut - but is contradictory because the first wave spawns instantly.
The furnace also has this function to instantly spawn 2 fire spirits, gaining an quick, short term advantage, and on top of all that it will survive to gain even more value in the long term. An example (not the best sorry) is using furnace, a long term investment to quickly react to and shutdown a surprise rush of minion horde or gang, and if that wasn't enough, it will survive to produce another 8-10 waves - all for just 4 elixir. Is this really appropriate for a spawner to have this kind of function?
A delay in the first wave should be implemented to address this issue - the delay to be proportional to the spawn rate which also implies the strength of the units. For example (numbers aren't perfect disclaimer) a spear goblin should wait 2 seconds before he is kicked out of the party, while a barbarian should wait 6 seconds.
Role as a sub-optimal 'defensive building':
Spawners or more specifically 'huts' offer a more offensive and proactive role than a defensive building. An inferno or bomb tower placed pre-emptively will not offer much value while huts passively pump out waves of units which can chip the tower. Inversely, being able to be more offensive must come with a cost; a cost of sub-optimal defensive capability.
Barbarian hut is also the biggest offender of this section, unsurprisingly. Obviously, a defensive building should be distinct from a spawner in terms of its roles and how well they can fulfil them. For example a dedicated defensive building includes: Inferno Tower, Bomb Tower and Tesla. These buildings can be employed reactively, has decent health and good damage in order to take down tanks.
Therefore, defensive buildings should be more robust and reliable on defence, than a spawner that fits in more of a hybrid and non-specialist role. A barbarian hut instantly adds over 220 DPS to the defence against a Giant or Golem for example, surpassing the DPS of a dedicated defensive building such as Tesla or Cannon, which has a DPS of 170-180. After 12.5 seconds a second wave will spawn and stack up to exceed 440 DPS, if the barbarians are left unmolested. Another example is using it reactively to shred a Hog Rider - it only allows the Hog to get two hits, and survives to provide sufficient value for the 3 elixir overcommitment.
A hut should not be able to properly fulfil the role of a defensive building, but a long term investment that pays off slowly over time. Again, an increase in the spawning time should mitigate this effect as the barbarians would have to wait, which would reduce the overall DPS outputted from the Hut, when countering a tank.
Another thing to consider is that one may think that the Hut would still be effective against a tank, placed in the back, because the slower spawning would not matter. I also believe that it is okay for the Hut to be more effective against a tank in the back as both players are employing investments that build value over time.
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META decks with Spawners (Barb-Hut as focus):
This section will explore the most popular decks used with Spawners:
A bit of history:
Barbarian Hut was not always the strongest hut, in fact it was one of the dead cards. In 2018 CRL challenge, the Goblin Hut was top-meta, in my opinion. It was very prominent in the 'PEKKA Zappies' deck as well as a variety of other decks. It even fits into Beatdown and Siege decks, at that time, such as Pompeyo's double hut X-Bow.
Barb Hut Decks:
Currently, the most popular decks involving Barbarian Hut are Graveyard, Royal Hogs and Elixir Golem. Huts are quite a niche card and cannot be utilised in any deck. It often requires the deck to be built around the hut itself, or at least share the same synergetic properties.
Goblin Hut and Furnace sadly, are not featured in any META decks currently as of the time of publishing.
Obtained from https://royaleapi.com/decks/popular?time=1d&sort=pop&size=20&players=PvP&min_trophies=0&max_trophies=10000&mode=detail&type=All&inc=barbarian-hut&&global_exclude=false On 8:11pm 16/Sep/20 (GMT)
The most popular Graveyard deck (with Barbarian Hut) is:
BarbHut GY
If image doesn't load the cards are -
| Barb Barrel | Barb Hut | Graveyard | Knight |
| Musketeer | Poison | Skeleton Drags | Skeletons |
Some common substitutions may include:
- Baby Dragon For Skeleton Dragon
- Delivery for Skeletons
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The most popular Royal Hogs deck (with Barbarian Hut) is:
Pigs Hut
| Barb Barrel | Barb Hut | Fireball | Heal Spirit |
| Musketeer | Royal Hogs | Skeleton Drags | Skeletons |
There are no known substitutions for this deck.
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The most popular Elixir Golem deck (with Barbarian Hut) is:
EGolem Hut
| Baby Dragon | Barb Barrel | Barb Hut | Battle Healer |
| Electro Dragon | Elixir Golem | Heal Spirit | Tornado |
You can replace Barbarian Barrel with Fireball.
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Compare and contrast:
One notable thing about these decks is that they all feature a 1 elixir cycle card. The GY has skeletons, while the EGolem has Heal Spirit, but the Hogs deck has both. I presume two reasons: the heal spirit is a strong card with strong synergies, while it also lightens up the deck to compensate for the 7 elixir heavy card.
The Graveyard and Hogs deck both share the same support units - Musketeer and Skeleton Dragons. This is due to the fireball or poison bait synergy that augments the win conditions, Hogs (fireball) and Graveyard (poison). These are complementary cards so it could be argued the win rate for Hut is being skewed by association with these two very compelling support units - but that is a post for another day.
Barbarian Hut plays the role of a mini-tank or tank in the Hogs deck:
Linking back to the previous section, regarding roles, the Barb-Hut can perform the role of a tank.
Strangely, the Royal Hogs deck does not require a mini-tank and has an additional cycle card instead. I hypothesise that the Barbarian Hut is taking the role of said mini-tank. I know that Royal Hogs do not require the assistance of a tank, such as the Graveyard deck as the pigs can tank for themselves. However on defence, a mini tank is necessary for an effective and reliable counter. The two Barbarians that come out essentially act as a mini tank in a defensive scenario. One common scenario pertaining to mini tanks, for example a knight, is used reactively on offence to reply to a threat such as spam style cards - Bandit, Lumberjack, offensive splanks likened to Royal Ghost and Dark Prince. In these situations, a mini tank is often the most reliable response. The Barbarian Hut instantly sends two barbarians to combat and can be almost used in the same way as a knight. A single barb barrel can just barely stop a Bandit/Ghost so two is more than sufficient. Regarding elixir, it may cost 4 more than a knight, but it can be argued that a healthy hut is well worth the 4 elixir deficit.
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Conclusion:
In conclusion, it appears that the Barbarian Hut is strong in this META, while the others are weak. I also feel that a rework in regards to adding a spawn delay would be helpful. Spawners appear to be heavily affected by the invisible hand of the market META, and government balance intervention that does not fundamentally change the card is ineffective. The role of huts can be subjective in a sense that it's function is not as clearly defined as a tank killer for example - who's obvious primary use is to kill tanks with their high damage. However, a card should not be able to take many roles effectively without a detriment in other aspects. Huts also seem to be quite niche and require a deck to be built around it.
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Discussion:
Finally! Let's have a discussion! Feel free to talk about anything related to spawners, it is not limited to the points below. Just make sure discussion is constructive, interesting and on topic!
"Every card in the game serves a function or a 'role'."
- What role do you think spawners should play in the game?
- Describe what you think the 'role' or purpose that spawners fulfil?
- Do you think that they are fitting said role well?
- If you don't agree, how should the role be adjusted?
- What do you feel about the state of the three spawners?
- Do you think they are balanced?
- Why do you feel that way?
- In in ideal meta. what do you think should be an appropriate use rate for these cards?
- Are they currently underused or overused?
- Do you think spawners are fun or boring to play against?
- Does any of these cards need a rework?
- Describe what your rework would be:
- Explain how it would improve the game
- Give some detail please :) Think outside of the box :D
- What aspects?
- Would it be a nerf, buff or neutral?
- What impact would the rework have on spawner decks?
- Would it require a new strategy?
- Would require a new deck?
- Do you agree with our rework that increases spawn delay?
- History of spawners
- Please share your knowledge of the past, and impress us with your rich knowledge!
- Any notable METAs involving spawners?
- What strategy would you use with huts?
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